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17/8/2023 6:19 PM  #1


Birth of Non-League?

So here's a starter on this topic...

I wondered when the term non-league was first in regular / common use...?
I think this guyhas a good take on the matter.

https://www.staff.city.ac.uk/r.j.gerrard/football/nl/history.html
"The first local leagues in England were formed in 1889, only one year after the Football League, but by that time the F.A. Cup (started in 1871) had already been plagued by accusations that some players had accepted money for playing. Some clubs wanted professionalism acknowledged, others wanted it forbidden. In a spirit of compromise which satisfied nobody, separate competitions (the F.A. Amateur Cup as well as amateur leagues) were set up for amateur clubs only, the other non-league competitions being semi-professional or mixed.This situation continued, not without some acrimony, until it became apparent in the 1970s that certain amateur clubs were again paying players. From 1973-74, then, there was (officially) no more division between the two halves. But when, in 1979, it was decided to unify the best non-League teams in the country in a single competition, those from the (formerly amateur) Isthmian League were overlooked and the league was composed entirely of former members of the (professional) Southern League and Northern Premier League. Thus the supremacy of the new Alliance Premier League was not initially universally accepted, especially as the F.A. Trophy (the unified competition for the best non-league teams) was more often won by Isthmian League teams than members of the APL.1981-82, however, saw the defection of two top Isthmian clubs to the APL, and from 1985 the champions of the Isthmian League were automatically entitled to promotion to the APL like the champions of the Southern League and the Northern Premier League, although promotion can be denied if facilities are adjudged not to meet the minimum standards set out by the APL.The precedent of automatic promotion from one league to another has spread throughout the non-league system, creating a structure called the 'Pyramid', whereby the three major regional leagues feed into the APL, but also accept new members from official feeder leagues. The Northern Premier League accepts the champions of the Northern Counties East League, the North West Counties League and the Northern League automatically; these leagues in turn accept new members from lower leagues. The Southern League and the Isthmian League are not obliged to take anyone from their many feeder leagues, but generally accept about 4 new members each per year.On the Cup scene, the top 450 (approx) non-League teams take part in the F.A. Cup; the top 176 also participate in the F.A. Trophy, and about 500 teams not entitled to a place in the F.A. Trophy play for the F.A. Vase."Copyright (C) Russell Gerrard and the RSSSF

I'm old enough to remember the 'Corinthian Casuals' - and the demise of the term 'amateur' game as described above. Also the strength back then of the Isthmian League...


 

 

17/8/2023 8:42 PM  #2


Re: Birth of Non-League?

Great post plymrob - Very interesting. Some great Archive league tables etc. from 1965-66 season to 1998-99.

Last edited by Matchman (17/8/2023 8:54 PM)

 

26/8/2023 7:52 AM  #3


Re: Birth of Non-League?

When the Football League started in 1888 there was actually another league called the Combination formed by clubs who were not selected for the Football League. Unfortunately they had not decided on how to work out who win the league ie points etc and they never finished the season. It is said the Football League only decided on a points system after the season had started. Anyway the Football League was so successful numerous other leagues, many local, copied their example and most flourished especially in the north. The points was tampered with until the 1970s.

 

30/8/2023 4:37 PM  #4


Re: Birth of Non-League?

Thanks for the responses...

Could you maybe clarify on this..."Anyway the Football League was so successful numerous other leagues, many local, copied their example and most flourished especially in the north."

So there were leagues in 1888 - but, back then, was everything not Football League known as "non-league"? Maybe the query is... how / when did the Football League assume the position of being THE league?

As for "The points were tampered with in the 1970s..". I can only think of the introduction of 3pts for a win and feel sure that was after the 1970s...

By the way - I checked after posting last time - only to see the 'Corinthian Casuals' are still around...! But, when a certain Julian Lailey taught me in the early 1970s he had played for England Amateurs and the Corinthian Casuals - before turning out a few times (as a semi-pro...?) for Cheltenham. I'm still thinking the 1970s might be argued to be the start of non-league in our current understanding of the term...?
 

     Thread Starter
 

01/9/2023 10:45 AM  #5


Re: Birth of Non-League?

In 1888 there were two leagues The Football League as we know it now and the Combination made up of teams who were not elected to the Football League. The Football League decided on two points for a win and one point for a draw early on and also decided that teams would play each other home and away. The Combination did not and seemed to make it up as they went along. Some teams in the Combination played a lot of games some did not and there were constant arguments about which games were league game and which were not. It never made it til the end of the season. It appears the Football League hit on the right formula and thrived. In the following seasons many leagues copied them including the Northern League and the Midland League.
You were right about the three points for a win it was proposed by Jimmy Hill in the seventies but not implemented until 1981. Now almost every league in the world have copied this formula.
I do somewhere have a list of league and when they formed. I will dig it out and post it on here. Many leagues were based around the Midlands and the major cities.
Technically non-league is still seen as any league in England apart from the Football League, Premiership or Championship.

 

01/9/2023 11:10 AM  #6


Re: Birth of Non-League?

This is a very incomplete and maybe inaccurate list of leagues and when they were formed!
History of League Football
1888 Football League
1888 Football Combination
1889 Football Alliance
1889 Northern League
1889 Midland League
1889 Notts and District League
1889 Birmingham League 
1889 Lancashire Combination
1889 Shropshire and District League
1890 The Combination
1890 Midland Alliance
1890 Derbyshire Senior League
1891 West Midlands Regional League
1892 Western League
1893 Birmingham Combination
1893 Manchester League
1894 Southern League
1894 Kent League
1895 United Counties League
1897 Norfolk and Suffolk League
1900 Isthmian League
1908 Notts and Derbyshire League
1911 Central Alliance
1912 Athenian League
1919 Cheshire League
1922 Combined Counties League
1924 East Midlands League
1927 Midland Combination
1935 Eastern Counties League
1945 Corinthian League
1951 Delphian League
1954 Warwickshire Combination
1954 Hellenic League
1968 Northern Premier League
1970 Essex Senior League
1979 National League
1982 North West Counties League
1982 Northern Counties East League
1986 Wessex League
1994 Midland Football Alliance
 

 

01/9/2023 3:31 PM  #7


Re: Birth of Non-League?

White Ball...  All good stuff. Thank you - and it needs a wider share.

There are quite a few leagues in that list though...! So, when was the term "non-league" first coined and or in regular usage...? This thread is 'Non League History' so, that's still my starter question...

Maybe I should get my coat... but there is now content!

Best.


 

Last edited by plymrob (01/9/2023 3:33 PM)

     Thread Starter
 

03/9/2023 7:02 PM  #8


Re: Birth of Non-League?

Go on a forum  called Non League Matters and there are lists of every league that has ever existed. I now use  the British Newspaper Archive to do my research. I no longer in Ilkeston as I have emigrated to Alnwick in Northumberland but I still love compile Excel spreadsheets with obscure facts about non league nonesense!

 

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